Friday, 13 April 2012

To all those who are skeptical of anti-PUAs

Recently there have been a couple of instances where I have been in part of a debate of pro-PUA vs anti-PUA people. This just made me want to write a post about my own experiences and how I too was pro-PUA at the beginning, how I grew slowly skeptical and how slowly but surely, I converted to completely dropping anything game related.

To those of you who read the first 10 odd posts - you broadly know my story and what set of experiences led me to where I stand today with my view on PUA. I want to talk about a slightly different angle of this. This is primarily aimed at people who are honestly trying to figure this shit out for themselves, maybe see that there is something wrong with PUA but feel people like Aaron Sleazy or the website is too extreme with it's views and that there is still some validity in at least some of the stuff which PUAs teach. I assure you there is none but I just want to talk about this for a bit.

So I am someone who never seriously indulged in routines, eliciting of her values or any of the other crap which PUAs teach. However, whenever I would use something, it would never really work. I got lots of numbers right from day 1 of cold approaching but never got anywhere with them. Ironically, times when I went the farthest with chicks was when I completely dropped game altogether and just continued talking normally to a girl who showed a lot of interest right from the beginning, contributed heavily in the interaction herself, was willing to sit with me ignoring her friends for a while etc.

When I first came across Sleazy and 60, the very first time I read them, I too thought they were too extreme. Sleazy says in Debunking that work out, dress well, be a normal social guy with friends and hobbies, pick an environment where you are comfortable and don't fuck it up with girls who like you. 60 says approach lots of girls, look for a girl who doesn't reject you and escalate fast and heavy.  That's all.

PUA community says these guys have "internalized" all the other skills so for them all this is irrelevant, but for a guy who is starting out, all the stuff they teach is important. After having a lot of the experiences I talked about earlier in this blog, I realized that there is quite a bit of merit to what Sleazy was saying but I still thought he was too extreme.

I thought there was value in stuff like doing role plays, creating the us vibe, learning how to tell good stories with emotional high and low points, make statements and never ask questions, focusing on self-improvement, inner-game, being super playful and not getting all serious, not handing out too many compliments, sending playful text messages, being a non-reactive "alpha-male" and the like. I thought maybe all this was obvious to a guy like Sleazy, but clearly I am not that good.

Then I had other experiences. In trying to be clever about what to say, teasing girls, being non-reactive to situations, focusing on self-improvement - I lost a few friends because they just thought I was being weird, there were a few instances where I did everything opposite of conventional wisdom and girls loved me (I wrote a post about this - you need to do too much). Also, I thought back to my high school days where I was this very simple innocent guy who complimented women genuinely like crazy, did a lot of AFC beta stuff, but a lot of gorgeous girls used to love me. Also, a lot of this stuff never felt natural. So I decided to drop a lot of this and started doing whatever the fuck I wanted. I was almost instantly happier and felt a lot more peaceful as a result.

By this time, a lot of this stuff had me think that absolutely nothing from PUA advice is worth it. One final thing - and this one hit me a lot - was when I saw a couple of famous PUAs talking about their current hot girl but when I met them, they were very very average. I must have turned down tens and twenties of girls of that type. This one made me really see the scam that PUA really is. At this point, I was like Sleazy is almost 100% correct that there is literally nothing about game which is useful. Interestingly, when I read Debunking again recently, I found myself agreeing 100% with everything written there when earlier, I was like yeah I agree but that Sleazy was being too extreme.

To conclude, if you think a lot of anti-PUAs are angry, bitter, preach prostitution over tons of cold approaching for rich guys, are probably not successful with girls, or they have "internalized" a lot of skills or anything else - please think again. A lot of us really just see this whole thing for what it really is. You may not agree with everything written by anti-PUAs, but slowly if you reflect on your own experiences, you will too. It's okay if you don't right now. I know I didn't at the beginning. If you are in the stage right now that you are fully immersed into PUA advice, think it is the solution to your love life - at the very least just drop in and read posts and comments at Aaron Sleazy and seductionmyth. Also remember that these guys are not selling anything. (You can argue here that Sleazy too makes money from this as he sells books and coaching, but given the smart guy Sleazy is, if he wanted to make lots of money from it, he is certainly doing a piss poor job of marketing it).

So for your own sake, read Sleazy and seductionmyth once in a while. Read what people have to say there. Maybe even try what they are proposing. Try to be a bit objective about your experiences. Slowly, you too will come to the exact same conclusions.


  1. Waking up is a process. Nobody gets brainwashed into the cult overnight, and nobody leaves it overnight.

    When and my friends left the cult (years ago) we followed the same path.

    - First we thought "hmmm maybe not EVERYTHING in game is true, but most is useful and anti-gamers are just bitter, they're lying about having transcended game"

    -> Then we got to "Ok so most of game is false, but it is USEFUL and good for newbies to go through, and it can be nice for some techniques"

    -> Then we reached "Actually 100% is useless shit and it's inferior in every way - there are better options than 'game' for every fact you can think of, it has no redeemable qualities"

  2. P.S

    Johnny, did you get an invite to my blog?

    1. Got it. First impressions - its a pretty fancy looking home page :)

    2. Got it. First impressions - its a pretty fancy looking home page :)

      It's what I do for a living :)

  3. On a tragic side note, brainwashed PUA morons tend to call us anti-gamers "bitter". I think Tyler even devoted a segment in one of his DVDs (maybe just on some random youtube video) to "bitter people". It's a charming little formula: If some one is critical, he's just bitter.

    1. Yeah, the weird thing is that it is actually so easy to fall for all this shit. Till this date, a part of me is embarrassed to look back and see how much time and energy I wasted on this shit.

    2. Some of us really are bitter :D

      Aaron isn't because he never fell for this crap too badly. I am actually bitter and feel like I have been scammed and robbed of my youth. I want a refund and I want justice :D

      Most of my ex-gamer friends are also bitter at the community... Despite the fact that all my friends are getting laid, richer, wiser and have cool lives, they still feel like killing someone whenever they see a PUA selling crap - because they think of the years they lost to it. It almost feels like you have been raped, and you want someone to pay.

    3. I want a refund

      This is a metaphorical refund on the energy and years wasted. I never actually spent a single cent on anything.

      (Many people don't know this, but there were "free copies" even back in the start of the community. Yes, even back when it was just starting, there were entire usenet groups dedicated to "copying" seduction products)

  4. But guys Game works