Tuesday, 15 May 2012

Women are just as clueless as guys

Today I want to talk about one implied notion which comes across from a lot of dating advice. It's this thing that women are somehow socially perfect and that if you manage to improve your game enough, at the very least, you should get majority of the women who are interested in you. However, what is much closer to the truth is that a lot of women are just as clueless as guys when it comes to dating and that it takes two to tango.

Let me give you examples from my recent experiences. Yesterday night, I went to a stand up comedy night. There was this girl who was constantly looking at me and smiling very seductively. I also know from an acquaintance who knows her that she is single. I go to her, we chat a bit. A little later in the evening when I am about to leave, I tell her if you would like to go do XYZ activity with me this weekend. Suddenly she gets all nervous, starts giving me some BS. So I am like okay, no issue and move on.

Now, it is of course possible that I was wrong in assuming that she likes me but usually, my intuition is pretty spot on these days. So I don't know what the issue was with her, but in my view, I did my part of initiating the conversation, talking a bit and asking her out. Maybe she wanted to chat more, maybe she did not want to do some other shit - point is, every girl wants different things and you can only do so much. If the girl doesn't do her part, you can't do much.

I'll give other examples. I remember this one time in a bar, I was talking to a girl and then moved in really close. Suddenly the girl starts getting all mixed emotions and tells me in quick succession that I smell so good and about how she is still hurt because a guy of my nationality dated her, told her he is going to marry her and then later dumped her. A few days back, I was in bed with another girl watching a movie. We start getting a little cuddly, then we start making out and as I try to ramp up the physical escalation, she is like I am not sure if I want to do this, I am still hurt from some XYZ relationship, some other crap blah blah blah.

Other times, it could be an issue in much simpler aspects. You are out with some friends at some cool event, you text a girl to come over as it is going to be a lot of fun - and then she starts getting all weird and shy, starts thinking I don't know about the event, will I get along with people yada yada. I remember another time in NY when I was going for a party on a private yatch with a friend in the Hudson. It was going to be an uber fancy party, with some drop dead gorgeous people. Now in my view, it was a no brainer that if I invite someone they come. I called up a female friend who used to live close by and told her to come over. At first, she acted really pricey saying I don't know, I am really tired. In my head, I was like, really?! I asked her once more, once again she acted pricey so I was like fuck it. Suddenly when I told her ok, don't come - she is like okay I will come but I am doing this only for you and you owe me for this! I have had some friends tell me similar shit where they ask some girl out for a movie, and for no particular reason she will act really pricey and expect that the guy will ask her out 2-3 times before she will say yes.

Point is, in these situations, you can be persistent and it's quite possible that the girl will come around later but it's also very acceptable if you went like, fuck it, I don't want to deal with this shit and move on. You played your part and it takes two to tango. Yes, with experience you can sense some of what the girl wants and turn these cases around, but you can only lift so much of the weight which she should be doing. Now, this is no excuse for you to not play your part, but the point is, a lot of the times, it really isn't your fault and there is only so much you can do.

Coming back to the original point, whenever some dude tells you that you have to listen and relate with the girl, not make her appear like a slut, figure out her logistics, try to understand what she likes, text her at the right time when she is free, connect with her emotionally, organize a fun date, keep the conversation fun, don't be clingy, be persistent but not be clingy, be aggressive but don't creep her out, make statements and don't ask questions, create an "us" vibe blah blah blah - dude seriously, if you don't want to, don't bother. There is only so much you can do. If the girl is not playing her part, there is only so much you can do.

So next time, don't bother so much about being smooth. Don't put so much pressure on yourself. Don't bother with if this is an appropriate time to ask her out, or should I chat with more. Should I organize a coffee date or is it okay to straight call her over for a movie at my place. Is it okay to just text "hey.. wassup.. how you doing" or should I come with something super clever. This is all another form of supplicating women. Do your bit - initiate conversations, ask for her phone number, ask her out, make a move on a date, ask her to come home etc. but don't worry about being smooth or creating the perfect moments. It takes two to tango.

Another related point. In my experience, difficult women remain difficult. You might think that okay, let pursue this girl for a while even when I don't want to because maybe, after a while, she will be all normal and easy. That usually doesn't happen.

Last point, please don't think of this post as me being a misogynist or that I "hate" women. I am just saying the truth that you can only do so much. You can't lift all the weight which she is supposed to. Also, please stop reading websites like "nerds get girls" etc. because by saying nerds, or geeks etc. - there is an implied assumption that women really know what they are doing but the truth is they are just as clueless as guys, if not more.


  1. Good post, Don't waste your time with girls that have a lack of interest. I don't. If they can't show some interest, they aren't going to be easy to warm up to the bed either. I'd pass on her too and save your money for better things!

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  2. John @ LifeStyleJourney has been making this point for years. He was the first one who noticed that game is actually VERY VERY misandric.

    Game always assumes that ANYTHING that happens is YOUR responsibility as a male. Game never holds women accountable for anything. If she responds bitchy to your approach? YOUR FAULT.

    If she's interested in you, but she fucks it up due to her own insecurities does DeAngelo blame the chick? No, he says IT IS YOUR FAULT that you didn't handle her insecurities.

    It takes two to tango, and game and feminism have in common that they blame men for everything and don't task women for anything.

    The truth is this...

    -> For something to happen between Jane and John, both need to be attracted to one another.

    -> If John is attracted to Jane and she is attracted to John, if they don't hook up ITS EQUALLY the fault of both.

    Both feminism, society and game claim that it's the men's fault if nothing happens. But this is just not true. Women have their own insecurities, faults, etc etc...

    It's very empowering to realize that it's NOT YOUR FAULT when things go wrong. Women are just as insecure, shy and anxious as guys (maybe even more). Often women go home SAD that they messed up with some guy.

    She wanted to let the guy know she's interested, but instead was too cold and chased him away. SHE FUCKED UP. She overdid the coldness and didn't flirt warmly enough.

    1. Here's a similar post I wrote earlier:


      For those who can't access it, here it is:


      Men Often Under-Estimate How Insecure Women Are And How Much They Self Sabotage

      I often see how many guys have a bias to interpret all of women’s confusing, weird, or cold behavior as deliberately malicious. In truth, a lot of such behavior comes from said women being insecure and non-confident. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying narcissistic bitchiness doesn’t exist, there sure is a ton of it out there. I’m also not entirely empathetic about women’s position because they’re downright lazy. I might feel more empathy if they didn’t insist on only doing 0.05% of the work in mating and courtship.

      That said, the truth is, a lot of the weird, bad and confusing behaviour that men encounter with women is in fact a lot of the time based on the woman messing up or self-sabotaging her interaction with the man. It’s not always bitchiness. A lot of the time it comes out of her being insecure. For some reason a lot men are unable to see insecurity in women and assume women do everything on purpose. Men seem to assume women know exactly what they’re doing, but that’s just not the case a lot of the time.

      The same is true in reverse. Do you realize, do you have any idea that very often if a woman sends you (what she thinks are obvious signals of interest) and you don’t ask her out, she assumes you’re an asshole? I’m not kidding. It never even crosses her mind that you have all these insecurities too. You’re thinking “Omg, was that a signal, oh wait, what if she laughs at me if I ask her out?”, “what if people think I’m a creep for talking to her”. Yet, she interprets your non-approach as “Who the fuck does he think he is? He thinks he’s too good for me huh? My boobs aren’t big enough for him to approach me? Well fuck him, shallow asshole!”

      Men and women both do it as a general rule. Men misread women’s insecurity-based actions as being malicious and bitchy. Women read a lot of men’s insecure behaviour as being asshollery.

      Here’s an article aimed at women… It’s pretty interesting… It’s teaching women how to not fuck up when a guy approaches them.

      From: http://iveronicawalsh.wordpress.com/2010/08/14/why-dont-men-ask-me-out-on-dates-a-cbt-view/

    2. Yeah man. And the other thing is that every damn chicks wants something different. One wants you to chase her. Other wants you stay a bit aloof so that she can do the chasing. One wants to be reasonably direct and compliment her a lot. Another wants you to convey interest only in an implied fashion. With one you can be extremely direct and say shit like you have an amazing ass, awesome boobs and that is why I like you (all said with a cheeky smile) and another never wants a single verbal direct comment. One wants that you stop wasting time and ask her out on a date as soon as you meet her. Another wants to take things very slow. So seriously, how the fuck can all this shit ever be your problem.

      This is also one common thing which I have noticed whenever I have heard female friends talk. Often when they are talking within themselves, there will be one chick or two who never really has a serious problem with guys. The other chicks are always like how is it that you always get hit on so much by quality dudes, how you always have guys taking you out on dates, how you always have guys chasing you. Almost always, the chick in concern is just someone who plays her part reasonably well in the dating process or at least better than most other girls.

    3. This is also one common thing which I have noticed whenever I have heard female friends talk. Often when they are talking within themselves, there will be one chick or two who never really has a serious problem with guys. The other chicks are always like how is it that you always get hit on so much by quality dudes, how you always have guys taking you out on dates, how you always have guys chasing you. Almost always, the chick in concern is just someone who plays her part reasonably well in the dating process or at least better than most other girls.

      I've noticed and discussed the same with female friends, but they just won't accept it and go out of their way to deny it.

      There is always in a given group ONE girl who's no better looking than the other girls, but she always gets 100x more date offers and ussually has much hotter boyfriends.

      It IS ALWAYS the case that unlike her friends, she is pro-active. And I'm not saying that she goes around asking men out.

      In most cases it's simply that she does the FEMALE side of the equation with effort. Puts A LOT of effort into very direct and clear displays of interest. Makes sure that the man is clear she's interested in being asked out. She GOES OUT OF HER WAY to create a situation for him to make a move. She makes it easy and comfortable for him to make a move... etc... etc... etc...

      The thing is, we live in a society that has taught women that if nothing happens, it's the men's fault for not playing his part right - but this has been driven to such an extreme, that most women no longer feel the need to even play THEIR traditional role even.

      I think it's lazy that women refuse to ask a man out. But ok whatever, let's have them at least do the female shit (giving hints, creating situations, flirting etc)...

      But they've gone a step further these days. Most women won't even SMILE&STARE at a guy they like. They won't even do THAT effort. They won't even TOUCH a guy they like or brush him on the arm.

      When you tell a chick like that the reason she hasn't had a date is because she doesn't STARE into guys eyes/and or touch them what is her response?

      """Phhhhhhhht I don't need a man boy who wants me to make it blatant for him! I want a man who will go for what he wants"""

      Truth is women say this out of insecurity and not wanting to admit they're shit-scared. They know they need to flirt, smile, touch, sexually hint - but society gives them more and more excuses, and insecure women use them.

      So when you see a woman blaming "spineless" men for not having dates, realize that she's really doing that because she's lashing out for her OWN insecurity and shyness, because she deep inside know she's not doing HER part - and that's why she's dateless.

  3. Hi Johnny,

    I see you're one of Sleazy's fans and followers, which is cool. I read through your blog and have some questions for you. See, you and Sleazy are very good looking people who are very successful. It's obvious that instructors like ones you mentioned, Rob, Zack, and DJ Fuji are ugly and their advice is for fellow ugly men who can't get girls based on looks or money, like you and Sleazy can. You've said several times that you are ridiculously smart, too. How can an average guy like me (I'm not as ugly as the instructors you hate) get with decently hot chicks? I'd love to see a post on that! It's really cool you're such a big Sleazy fan. What did you think of his first book?

    1. Few other random points. It seems to me that you have built up notions around a lot of this stuff, which isn't true in reality.

      - None of these instructors, ugly or good looking, consistently pull girls who are out of their league. Not Rob Judge, not Zack, not Dj Fuji. Not even me. You only pull easy girls. Typically the hot ones which a lot of guys pull (including me) are ones who are like new to the city, or like tourists or foreign girls or girls in the city for the summer or with not strong social networks and the like. You have to be smart about placing yourself in the right environments. Outside of this, you might pull out of your league sporadically, but certainly not consistently.

      There is no game in the world which can get a guy hot girls who are way out their league. It's just impossible. If it was possible then guys should be able to pull taller girls, which no one is able to do.

      The point about all these guys - I am not sure if you realize this is - all of them only pull average and easy girls. Now to pull average and easy girls, I am sure (hope?) you realize that you don't need any game. Just meet a few who are looking out and if you are her type, then just don't fuck it up. So if all anyone does is pull average chicks, then why all this hoopla about "game".

      I encourage you to read Sleazy's blog, forum, maybe read seductionmyth and it's comments section. It's really good stuff.

      And seriously dude, Dj Fuji, Rob Judge, Zack and a lot of others are total shit. You too will realize it one day.

  4. Quote :
    On the contrary, I am very sure if you went out and measured things, smartness will almost certainly have a negative correlation with being good with women.

    I suppose it does. But then again, I know it doesn't. It depends.
    Let me clarify :

    First, let's separate correlation & causality.
    When I see the word correlation, I understand it's about nothing more than the question whether "smart" men do (greatly) succeed with getting women, whithout any regard what ROLE the smartness actually played in the getting (if any).
    Causality I'd see like this : when a man displays smartness, is this display a turn-on for a woman or not. Is the smartness seen as an asset or not.

    Second, "smart" can mean different things.
    If we're talking about Brian Cox type smartness, few females will see it as an asset, and many will considered it nerdy. So the causality effect works against these men.
    Disregarding this effect, it's still clear that the correlation will be negative, because of overall personality type.

    At the other end of the spectrum, I'm thinking of men responsible or active in the subprime/derivatives schemes of the previous decade. These people who network, are quick to see where & when human reality can be exploited, ruthlessly work their way into those opportunities, and are gone with pockets full of cash before the thing collapses. A wholly different type of smartness.
    Looks like a pretty attractive property to display to women.
    And even apart from this causal effect, there's the simple ruthlessness & fast thinking which would in itself make the correlation between smart and getting women strongly positive.

    So I'd say men who are smart definitely do better. If they are smart in the proper way.

    BTW : The two big ones (Sleazy and Janka) are living examples of how smart and womanizing go together. Hech, judging by his writings, the first one is no less than a genius.

    1. Good points man. Your point about what type of smartness is attractive is a good breakdown. I had more technical smartness in mind like Brian Cox. Also, I did not want to bother getting into correlation and causality because my replies were anyway really long.

      The main focus of my earlier reply was more to point that I am not a guy who has it extremely easy with women because of looks, money and other seemingly natural advantages. And that my dislike of these random PUA coaches comes purely from a perspective of their shit not working or that other things are way more efficient

  5. One of my friends once hacked into his psycho ex's e-mail and found that she'd been reading all these onsane books about "How to keep your man forever" and "How to manipulate him to do whatever you want" kinda stuff.

    Women are bigger products of programming than PUAs. Which is probably the reason why they are constantly sabotaging themselves. They are unsure if they are ever doing the smart/correct/right thing because their cosmos and mags told them something and their cousins and friends keep on telling them something else.

  6. Sadly PUA has made women into these superpowered social creatures who can detect bs, lying etc just through your body language or magic - and somehow you are responsible for THEIR mistakes in judgement

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